jaudio shorts

Jonathan,

Thank you. I mean no disrespect to Jubak either, and did not read his article, but completely aside from that I'd like to say it's refreshing to hear your perspective. I mentioned in a recent post that the other day I heard someone email CNN complaining that the recession was taking thousands out of their retirement account because stocks were going down. I had the same reaction as you--why do people assume none of this is their choice? Who is forcing them to buy stocks and hold them all the way down? Why don't they take responsibility for their money? Unfortunately, not all on Main St. are as sharp as you.

Nothing personal against CNN, but I always see people on Mr. Dobbs show complaining about jobs and immigration and NAFTA and all that. I have no doubt some people have it tough. But I also know of hard working Mexicans who leave their families, come to the US, work 2 jobs and not only support themselves but also support extended families back in Mexico.

Bottom line: Most of us don't know anything about hardship, myself included. Most of us are very lucky to have what we do, and that's why I try to make the most of my investments. I earned the money, why would I not try to learn how to keep it?

Best,
stocksurfer

very nice post.
but, i won't blame you for writing a good article. =)

Excellent.

Amazing. Your post should really inspire anyone of "our generation" to start taking ownership of our decisions. For those of us who grew up with a theme of "immediate satisfaction", it can be hard to think that we can't have what we want, when and how we want it. But it's true. "Sacrifice" is a word we are all going to have to get used to.

Absolutely amazing post. Thank you!

Jonathan,
You earned even more respect from me you with this post! and it's not because you mention me by name :)

I'll tell you something about me personally- since the very beginning of my journey here in the US I simply could not comprehend why most American kids of my age had such a strong entitlement feeling... I finally figured it out several years ago after seeing some ribbons and prizes for 29th place ou of 30 contestants that one of my friends had prominently featured in his room- it's starts early- first we don't want to tell our kids a word "no" and then tell them that just participating is just as good as winning...

I mean, come on- I wish they printed a sign for every teenager out there and put it on their desk for 10 years- "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first" Mark Twain

P.S. I had it written in my cube for three years- may be that's why I have an office now :)

Jonathan,

Eloquently put. There is no free ride in this life. We are all responsible for the consequences of our decisions. Good luck to you with your investment strategy. One hint: buy a little gold. It can give you a boost in the worst of times.

I happy that you're doing so well as a result of your hard work, discipline, and smarts. But I think you make my points rather than refute them. You say, for example, that you're combatting higher prices for bread and milk by shopping smart. Great. But I think that exactly proves my point that for the median worker in the U.S. real wages--that is after inflation--have declined in the last three years. Same with your comments on your plan to save on gas. Yes, you've found a way to avoid higher gas prices, but the effort you've put into it demonstrates the real pain in the squeeze. I never argued that there's nothing that you (we--if you're willing to grant that I live in the real world too) could do about it. I think you've found a number of really smart personal solutions. But I think you're ignoring the larger political point. This squeeze on incomes for half the U.S. working population isn't an accident. It didn't just happen by itself. The decline in real wages comes at the same time as a record percentage of the national income is going into corporate profits. Companies are getting more of the pie and they're not passing along the growth in their profits to U.S. workers. The squeeze on real incomes for half of U.S. wage earners comes as Washington has cut the tax rates paid by partners in hedge funds and private equity funds. It's come as CEO pay has sky rocketed. The government to the degree that it's done anything in the economic sphere has worked to create profits for companies and CEOs and the managers of hedge funds. I think your efforts to cut expenses and save by moving closer to work, by controlling your grocery spending are admirable on an individual basis but I think you're swimming against a strong current out of Washington directing more and more of the national income away from the median worker. Individuals can succeed in fighting that current but it sure makes the job tougher.

Joe Investor: Your 3rd written paragraph. Congratulations on being able to save 35% of your income to save for a house that someone else got overextended on due to their lack of responsibilty. I hope congratulations are in order after you purchase this house. Your 35% weekly savings and more will disappear once you start to pay your mortgage, property taxes, insurance and association dues. I live on main street and am a responsible spender. I have an extremely difficult time paying for all of these including, health insurance, car insurance, life insurance,groceries, taxes, phone, water, electricity, natural gas, childrens education etc. I do wish you the best of luck.

Indianrider:

So your recommendation would be not to buy a house, then? Woe is me. Truthfully, I will enjoy the challenge. You'd be surprised what a person is capable of when they are willing to adapt and overcome. The laundry list of expenses you list are the same things I pay for, other than property taxes, house upkeep expenses, and children's education since I don't have kids yet. I am not worried about when that time will come, I am planning for it. I enjoy my own small American dream, and I will continue moving forward pursuing more. I just can't seem to figure out how all of those "lucky" people always seem to be the ones that are working the hardest and using their brains. The problem isn't that we have no choices. Rather, it is our own unwillingness to make and live with the tough ones.

--Jonathan

Greetings All, JimJubak, I am a big fan of yours, but think you are missing the bigger picture. Sure times are tough for some, but aren't they always. It is what you do during the tough times that shines during the great times to come.
Those waiting on DC to "fix" it are in for only dissapointment. DC fixes nothing because if they did (or could), we would no longer need them... We have the power to fix this ourselves.
Regarding CEO pay, I think it is too much, but also think the "serfholders" need to hold the "lords" accountable. If these guys were so talented that they "earned" their pay, then why so many mistakes?? From what I have seen in the business world, the top guys have more info, or have "landed" into their positions, but are no smarter than anyone else. Time to pay them like the monkeys they are. There is a lot of talent out there waiting in the wings. Some companies that live up to this, and I prefer to spend my money there.

Just remember, 30+% of the world lives their whole lives on $1 per day. What can be said about CEO's can also be said for us Joe's here in the US. The world will even it all out eventually. Our wave is cresting. Best to make use of the wealth we have rather than squander it on toys. Do you have a cell phone? What have you done with your earnings??

It's great that some people like Jonathan are doing REASONABLY well. My family climbed from living in a slum to living in a well-off suburb in one generation. So, I have the perspective and I don't think Jim Jubak is saying that people are helpless or hapless. Actually, he is saying the opposite.

One of the things you learn as you climb the ladder in life is that the higher you go, the more you see and the more you appreciate the path you had to follow and the decisions made. Things are not as simple as just working hard and planning - it is necessary but often not sufficient. Luck and events above you still influences a lot - most people just don't think about it that much because they are not involved in the decisions.

What is also not appreciated is that the political and economic picture influence people's lives more than most people realize. It definitely helps if you don't have to "fight the current" as Jim Jubak states.

Most people don't place much credence in our political system these days (and with good reason given recent history). But, frankly, giving up and not trying to make a difference in the bigger picture and just keep banging your head against the wall is not going to get you to the top. Some do but don't kid yourself about the odds (realistically it's about 2%). I am not saying you should sit on your butt but you really have to understand where you are and the nature of the path in front of you before you can figure out where and how far you are going.

The irony is that you figure this out after the journey.

Excellent comments, all. Seems like I touched a nerve. Those odds of 2% . . . I like those odds. Seems like several others like those odds, too, since there's more people from more countries around the world trying to come to the good old US of A to make it. It's so much better than the zero percent where they are from. Come one, come all--I would rather have the hard workers and risk takers (regardless of education) on my team than slackers and excuse makers. As long as that happens, Democracy, Capitalism, and the Rule of Law will take care of the rest.

---Jonthan

Jonathan,
I read your post and at the end I was not sure what to think. I agree with many of your principles and ethics and I believe that at the core you and I and Jim agree that all of these things are important and the correct way of life. From reading your post I am guessing you are in your mid-20's (you have 40 years till retirement). That puts me about 15 years ahead of you. I also live very much within my means and always have. During the past years when neighbors were constantly going on super expensive cruises and buying new $40k+ cars and boats and things I was still driving two cars that were paid for within 6 months of purchasing them and that were 12 and 11 years old respectfully. I invested in the stock market, put the maximum into our 401K's and had a very nice safety net in liquid assets. I owned a house I built 13 years ago and that is now half of what the original mortgage is for and will be paid off in another 5 years or so. So I understand your arguments. However, I could not help but think you were just being a little bit too cocky or self righteous or something. I am not sure what it was, but I think there is a little bit of young generation inexperience in your comments. I am not really complaining about gas because I drive rather fuel efficient cars and have for the past 11 years (my choice). But nonetheless it does eat into my future savings or current standard of living. Same for everything else that is going up in price. You say you made choices about where you live (close to your and your wife's work). But what if you lost your job? You now have a choice you need to make (try and find a similar paying job, take a pay cut to get a job within 2 miles or just not work). No matter which of those and other various options you are more than likely going to have an impact on your life (driving further away, gas costs, insurance costs, time lost, etc). You did not choose to quit your job, you just lost it - due no fault of your own). OR another example - you have children and one of them has health issues which cost a lot of money. This is something that will impact you greatly, from what jobs you take, to where you live, to what you can afford to buy, etc). Once again you had no choice in that matter (other than choosing to have children), it was just dealt to you. As you get older you will come to learn that your life can be greatly controlled by yourself, but there will be unlucky things that get thrown your way, some of which can be incredibly unlucky and financially significant. Also there is no lack of corporate greed in this country. I love America, but if you have ever viewed history then it looks like America just crested its high in the last decade or so. Greed is always the downfall and it will be now too. Things that are socially right the government refuses to move on because of corporate and individual greed gets in the way. We don't do what is best for the country but what is best for myself (the elected official).
What if food prices go up another 20% and gas (auto and home) another 30% this year. It is incredibly naive of you to think you can manage these away. I guess you could just turn off your electric and move to an all protein shake diet or something. But to what end? Take care and good luck with your dreams and future. I hope they and everyone else's work out and I hope just somehow 30 years from now when I am ready to retire that significant retirement egg I have saved and built will actually be worth something.

Mr Jonayhan, I can see the great pride in your article for that which you have accomplished. You could look aound and see many others who have done the same proir and will after you. But if you believe that just because the choices you made were sucessful, don't for one minute believe that you could not have failed using the same choices. There must always be more poor people than wealthy in order to make the system which you depend on to work to your advantage. The odds have always been ten thousand to one at your level and one million to one at the level of those in the multimillionaire level.
The rules of this game can be changed to relegate you to the ten thousand bracket quite easily. Many of those people you decry as lazy, live just above the restuarant you frequent, making less than the minimum wage. You eat there, enjoy the meal and do not consider their condition, this is the same attitude that those more wealthy have. "The poor must be poor because they are lazy, because look at me, I did it on my own with good planning and hard work".
I remember when Rome taxed food in order to keep people hungry, so that they had to work for the wealthy. I also remember when the caucasian took away the land from the African and then forced them to work the land for just enough to buy food.
Beware young man, there is much you have not seen. The day comes (and shortly) when you will be be in the position of which you speak rashly. When you have to commute because of the living close to where you work is made high by the lawmakers and property owner. And you can't afford the cost of food, and can't grow your own in an appartment. And the cost of taxes, heating and other utilities on the house you have just bought is a burden. And the house you just bought is valued less than what you paid for it.
But these are just the thoughts of a foolish old man.
Yah934

your ideas for saving are good advice... fine practices for all. however you are mistaking good fortune as being the result of hard work and good planning only. there is also an element of chance in your results. picture a world where all citizens had equal intelect, enrgy, desire... everything equal. there would still be the same number of people at the bottom of society as today! the only way up would be for somebody else to fall down and allow you to take their better place in society. do you really believe everybody who has less than you has earned their reward? further extrapolation would be that all that have more than you earned this also and deserve it all? how many really wealthy people do you think ever worked hard? come on kid open your mind up a little!